III. Living Together? Real Stories

Floyd Cochran and “Mary”

After the afternoon breakout sessions and the plenary session was complete, two defectors from white supremacist groups talked about their journeys into and out of organized hate groups. Floyd Cochran was the national youth recruiter for the Aryan Nation and “Mary” was part of a Pennsylvania-based neo-nazi skinhead group. This section of the conference was moderated by Ann Van Dyke of the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission.

Ann: What was going on in your life when you first got connected with a white supremacist group?

Floyd: I want to talk about what was and wasn’t going on in my life. What was going on was that I was being taught that skin color made me superior. I was the skinny kid that had no friends and thought of myself as being a loser. I always wanted to be a macho man that I saw on TV, and the hate groups approached me and offered to make me into a “real man” with power to instill fear in others. What wasn’t going on in my life was that I never saw positive images of minorities, only that minorities were committing the crimes, were on welfare and were taking all the good white people’s jobs. I never learned about their positive contributions to America. All of my heroes were losers and I began to condition myself to be a loser. Society influenced me to think of myself as being better because of my skin color. When I go down to the Capitol and look at the murals of how Pennsylvania was built, I only see pictures of white people building things. Not seeing the contributions of minorities helps to lay the foundation of bigotry for young people. But I must accept responsibility for what I have done. I can’t entirely blame society and the Aryan Nations for my actions.

“The hate groups
gave me a sense of
purpose and made me
feel wanted.”
Mary: I was always the different kid in school. I never did the whole makeup and clothing and hair thing that everyone else did. I came from a single home and was alone a lot. Hate groups promise to be everything to you your mom, dad, siblings, your friends until it controls every aspect of your life. The hate group now owns you. I lost myself. I was not the person born to my mother, I became a vessel that preached hate. When I was fifteen, I met a boy who was involved with a hate group. At first I didn’t know what he was truly like and didn’t know he was a racist, but by the time I found out, it was too late and I was in love and totally absorbed in the relationship. In order to hang onto him, I became everything that he wanted. And eventually, I was indoctrinated myself and began recruiting others just like me.

Ann: How did the hate movement fill unmet needs in you? What characteristics did you look for when recruiting?

Floyd: The hate groups gave me a sense of purpose and made me feel wanted. I was never in the band or on a sports team, but now I was part of something unique. I gained self- respect, got to wear a uniform, and could now intimidate people because I was “a man.” The Christian Identity movement gave me spiritual justification for my hate. God wanted me to hate and I was on a mission for God. The hate groups gave me easy answers and I didn’t have to accept any of the responsibilities for mistakes I made or problems in my life. It wasn’t my fault that I didn’t finish school. It wasn’t my fault that I couldn’t find a decent paying job, it was affirmative action. It was Blacks and Jews who were causing all the problems. When I was a kid, I was the fence hanger, the trailer trash. No one talked to me. But the hate groups talked to me, and they address the needs of common people. We need to do the same in order to dispel stereotypes with reality.

Mary: The hate group also gave me a sense of power. When I shaved my head and bought combat boots, people feared me and looked at me differently. They now knew what I was capable of. I thrived on that fear.

The neo-nazi skinhead group I was involved in would set up tables in high schools and hand out literature to the kids who didn’t seem to fit in with everyone else. The loners, the skaters, the alternative people. We would invite kids to a party and once they got there, fill their heads with racist thinking. Female recruiters were the most effective. We would go to malls and talk to guys and invite them to parties. Once they arrived at the party, the guys would take over and talk to them about how the minority students had all the advantages and got special treatment from teachers who were Blacks and Jews. These methods were so effective, that nine out of ten students would join us that very night. They felt that these people cared about them, looked out for them, that they were special. They chose me, so I must be special. These methods were so successful that the group I was in grew from 7-10 people to over 5,000 names on our mailing list. Our little group is now worldwide.

Floyd: The Aryan Nations used many different methods to recruit young kids. We would practice before going out to recruit. We would make racist CD’s to give to the kids. We would invite them to parties to build bonds and show that the Aryans were not so bad, we were nice people who cared. Alcohol was very important. We would pump kids full of alcohol and get them angry so that they would go out and hurt someone. We would also use the Bible, volatile political issues, rock videos and rock concerts to incite violence and recruit kids aged 14 and 15. We need to do the same thing. We must reach out to these kids and offer them alternatives to hate groups.

Ann: Why did you leave?

Mary: There are so many reasons, but the main reason I left the neo-nazi skinhead group was because of my daughter. When my daughter was born, I wanted to raise my child to be open to do and be whatever she wanted. I wanted my daughter to be free to make her own decisions. My significant other and I decided we would tell her how we felt, but still let her choose what she wanted to do. But pretty soon we were taking her to Klan rallies and showing her off to all my hooded friends. I realized they would not allow her to do what she wanted. What if she came home with a black man? But then I began to think of my own childhood. Despite the fact that I was raised in a single parent home, my childhood was good and I was raised in a loving, open environment. I had friends from many different races. I wanted the same for my child. I took a step back and looked at myself, my life, and began to see people for who they were. The rose colored glasses came off. They were people, not apes like my “friends” taught me. This was drilled into my head so much that eventually I didn’t see the human standing before me. They were just like me, the only difference was their skin color. Alcohol was the mainstay, and abuse and violence were very common in the movement, and I feared for my life. After I made my initial decision to change and leave the group, it took me two years to defect for fear of the repercussions. But finally I decided that my daughter came first and I left the organization.

Floyd: When my son was born with a cleft palate and a cleft lip, the Aryan Nations told me he would have to be euthanised because of this defect. Three months after I was ordered to kill my son, I left the Aryan Nation. I began questioning why it was wrong to kill my youngest son and okay to kill others who were different. How could one be right and the other wrong without being a hypocrite? In the last seven years I have come a long way. The change did not happen overnight, and I still have a long way to go. Sometimes I still get a racist thought, but it is what I do with those thoughts that is important. I now fight to challenge my own racist thoughts and those of others.

Ann: What would you want to say to those who are the targets of hate group activities?

Mary: First I want to apologize. Remember that hate groups’ strongest weapon is your fear. That’s what makes them superior. They can do what they want if you are afraid and do not stand up to them. You must show them that you will not stand aside and let them come into your town and harass your neighbors. And don’t think hate groups will not try to recruit your children and that they are not in your town. Many hate group members look like everyone else. They blend in and work in normal jobs. We purposely tried to blend in. We were coached and educated not to separate ourselves.

Floyd: I am sorry and take full responsibility for my actions. Yes, I was an easy target. My life was not good, but I still made the decision to join the Aryan Nations. America needs to take responsibility for past actions and say they are sorry for the wrong that was done to minorities in the past. I think this would help resolve some of the problems we have today. We need to take a stand against racism. What if Martin Luther King had decided to stay home? It will not go away. Christians must show that God is a God of love, not hate. I was taught that Blacks had no souls and that Jews were the biological descendants of Satan. This made it easy for me to hurt them, I was on a mission for God. But we must show that God does not hate. We must speak in everyday language to reach teens who are searching. We must offer them concerts, parties and alternatives to hate groups.

Ann: What do you want to say to young people who are easy targets?

Mary: Kids with issues are easy targets. They need to be told that they are not alone. We must accept them for who they are. It is also important to have positive media coverage. The media always shows the uproar that occurs when the Klan comes to town. This only adds more attention to the group. Instead, unity rallies and other good, uplifting activities should be highlighted. We need to take an interest in these kids and shift the attention away from the Klan.

Floyd: Joining a hate group won’t take you anywhere in life. Most do not go to college, nor can they join the army. If you join a racist group, you lose control of your life. All my life I was a loser. My heroes were losers. Now I am a winner and my friends are winners. We need to give alternatives to kids instead of the Klan. We must look at organized hate groups for who they are criminal gangs. Blacks join “gangs,” Whites join “groups.” But they are both the same; there shouldn’t be a difference. We would never allow gangs to come into our schools and our towns, but we let hate groups come in. The Klan is a criminal gang and they don’t have the right to use a school for their rallies. We must change our mind set about gangs and groups.

Mary: I spent time in jail. I am a convicted felon with an FBI record. Every single person in my inner circle was a convicted criminal. We talked about Blacks and how they were always committing crimes, but we were no better than them. When counter protesters go to Klan rallies, they are sometimes more violent and angry than the Klan. We must remember not to stoop to their level. We must show them who is the better person. Violence is best combated with education, not more violence.